tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8104600450225406597.post6092280305835539879..comments2024-03-29T02:10:02.587-07:00Comments on Bad UFOs: Skepticism, UFOs, and The Universe: UFOs In the Desert, Part 3.Robert Sheafferhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15324537021429419111noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8104600450225406597.post-6904512595645476722014-02-24T19:04:05.178-08:002014-02-24T19:04:05.178-08:00I can't believe anyone giving credence to Phil...I can't believe anyone giving credence to Phil Klass. It just seems like his late years ignored so much of his early years objectivity.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17140512816158312070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8104600450225406597.post-65861099175739137542013-03-27T16:18:15.898-07:002013-03-27T16:18:15.898-07:00It might be wrong to think so, but I could not hel...It might be wrong to think so, but I could not help but feel bad for John Rao, tooling around in his little vehicle. It brought to mind a guy proud to be invited to a celebrity's home for Thanksgiving dinner, then instructed to sit at the kids' table.<br /><br />On a different note, I am surprised at the group searching for alien craft so diligently. Aren't they afraid to be targeted for abduction?jozzcooperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10346278013676621644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8104600450225406597.post-18348992545474294252013-03-22T15:39:44.706-07:002013-03-22T15:39:44.706-07:00Hi Nab!
That's Small Group Scare (followed by...Hi Nab!<br /><br />That's Small Group Scare (followed by confabulatory narrative--a "UFO" story)<br /><br />"Collective delusions are typified as the spontaneous, rapid spread of false or exaggerated beliefs within a population at large, temporarily affecting a particular region, culture, or country."<br /><br />A small group scare is its local expression, in which an ambiguous stimulus is misidentified as the threatening manifestation of that false belief, and fear of that imaginary threat is transferred to others by direct contact. -zo<br /><br />"Small group scares [typically] involve individuals in close physical proximity, within temporarily close settings, where escape routes are limited. Incidents occur in isolated, ambiguous geographical surroundings, when participants panic after seeing something unusual that is assumed to pose an immediate threat. Thus, an aerial light source is transformed into a flying saucer, or bushes rustling or an unfamiliar noise becomes Bigfoot. ...<br /><br />SGS "episodes [typically take] place at night in dark, isolated environments, with the group 'leader' often remarking that he or she was physically or mentally fatigued, which enhances suggestibility and reduces critical thinking ability. ...<br /> <br />"The primary witness...almost always holds an influential social position...and is the one who interprets the [ambiguous] stimulus as a potential threat. In each case, the group soon reaches a bogus consensus that the object is pursuing them. The ambiguous stimulus is then rapidly defined with popular cultural labels (Bigfoot, ET spacecraft...).<br /><br />"Small group scares often occur during UFO waves" and all that remains is the synthetic confabulatory narrative they've created to "explain" the event and their behavior in the absence of evidence or an objective observer.<br /> --UFOs & Alien Contact, Bartholomew & Howard, 1998, pp 214, 219 & 228.<br /><br />In my deconstruction of hard-core believer and repeater Terauchi's fit of "UFO" hysteria over Alaska, I made a point of how the two "scout ships" far ahead of the 747 aircraft somehow were transformed into a "giant mothership" on its tail.<br /><br />Funny Stuff! Thanks for asking!<br />zoamchomskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16519698426338891542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8104600450225406597.post-23703865126056227882013-03-21T08:03:45.606-07:002013-03-21T08:03:45.606-07:00Hi Zoam. Could you please explain SGS? What is it?...Hi Zoam. Could you please explain SGS? What is it? Thanks.nablatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08085975823083828826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8104600450225406597.post-85608759351454497662013-03-15T15:00:46.632-07:002013-03-15T15:00:46.632-07:00"But all it takes is one case that is authent..."But all it takes is one case that is authentic to change everything."<br />Jeepers! Just one real spacecraft from another world? Saying it makes it sounds so easy. We'll all know it, if it ever happens. But what's certain is that it would be unlike anything imagined by popular-culture and as is represented in all of the "UFO" myth and delusion.<br /><br />"There are a lot of cases in the UFO area that raise far more questions than answers"<br />Name one, make it your favorite, I'll dismiss it in a word or two. You see, Rick, good skeptics have already debunked nearly every major case to my satisfaction many times over. Believers just ignore these completely rational, real world, mundane explanations and grasp at another phony "UFO" case that's never what believers pretend it to be. Then they recycle these thoroughly debunked "flying saucer" fairy tales repeatedly. Arnold: Hoax! Trent: Hoax! Trindade: Hoax! Hills: Small group scare and confabulation. Cash: Hoax! Terauchi: SGS and confabulation. RendleSham: SGS first night, then Halt's Hoax!<br /><br />"and there is nothing long since proven in the negative."<br />If you really think that the "UFO" non-issue is even remotely undecided then you're suffering under a popular-culture delusion that has absolutely nothing to do with anything real. Belief in the "UFO" myth and delusion is fundamentally absurd since it's based on a mass of insubstantial, mostly unsubstantiated and wholly inconsequential confabulatory narratives about the failure to identify an ambiguous visual stimulus—a Negative! There are tens of thousands of these so-called "UFO" REPORTS, there just aren't any real "UFOs." It's as irrational, naive and frivolous as believing in "unicorns from outer space." <br /><br />"Could not disagree more Zoam with that assertion." <br />It's not an assertion, it's a fact. There is zero evidence for anything extraordinary. There never were any airships, phantom balloons, ghost rockets, flying saucers or "UFOs" of any kind, much less visiting ET spacecraft. Over a century of "UFO" REPORTS has a very mundane explanation: Robert Sheaffer's Null hypothesis for "UFO" REPORTS, and the complementary Psychosocial hypothesis describes the history of the "UFO" delusion.<br /><br />"You know for a fact ET has never been here? No one can say that for an absolute fact."<br />There is no evidence that they have, period. And absence of evidence is extremely good evidence of absence. Not impossible, but just so utterly implausible given the thoroughly radically contingent reality negating the proposition. Simply because we are here by one happy accident of self-consciousness to reflect on the Universe, doesn't mean that there is another sentient creature in the entire Galaxy. And given the insurmountable obstacles to interstellar travel: distance, time, life support, and innumerable, random cosmic hazards, the chance that hypothetical ETI have ever visited Earth is so very small the idea is pure fantasy. A dozen exceptions to the Fermi paradox are more reasons we will never meet.<br /><br /><br />"Lets say someone for what ever reason comes here has a look and leaves. Some guy see's a craft for a few moments and then its gone to who knows where. You know for a fact that has never happened? Exactly why is that an impossibility?"<br />See all above from the start, Rick, you've defaulted to ignoring the obvious facts of the world, appealing to ignorance, what if, and all the other fallacious appeals along the way. zoamchomskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16519698426338891542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8104600450225406597.post-88884577365223953852013-03-12T22:22:27.588-07:002013-03-12T22:22:27.588-07:00I should add that when tested under tight controls...I should add that when tested under tight controls, the wonderous mesmeric effects -- try not to be surprised! -- disappeared or were found to be caused by coaching the subject (Winter, pp 96-99).Terry the Censorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13361088223337740598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8104600450225406597.post-77294537284301007442013-03-12T22:18:28.440-07:002013-03-12T22:18:28.440-07:00@nyceddie
> I cannot be close-minded because I...@nyceddie<br /><br />> I cannot be close-minded because I've had 5 or 6 excellent sightings of strange aerial phenomena<br /><br />Monday night I was reading a history of Mesmerism in 1840s England. Mesmerists were perplexed that written accounts of their claims were not found convincing by the public or the medical profession. However, people seemed to change their minds about the reality of the magnetic fluid when they saw a demonstration in person. Something about witnessing a mesmeric display was more convincing than reading a detailed report (Alison Winter, "Mesmerized: Powers of Mind in Victorian Britain," pp 157-8).<br /><br />170 years later, there still is no physical evidence of magnetic fluid to corroborate the eyewitness testimony. We can safely conclude that the mesmerists and their subjects had deluded themselves, and that the witnesses were innocently mistaken.<br /><br />So history has shown us the error in your logic, Eddie. Why repeat it? I suggest you move on from that error and concentrate on producing an alien or a space craft. Either would convince me.<br />Terry the Censorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13361088223337740598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8104600450225406597.post-32460868797921026962013-03-12T19:50:57.826-07:002013-03-12T19:50:57.826-07:00I found the ATV vehicle was interesting. It seems...I found the ATV vehicle was interesting. It seems more fitting for Bigfoot hunting than alien hunting. Why not enjoy looking at the night sky, for things we DO know. You miss out so much scanning for UFOs. Expensive gear, no one can afford unless they have a TV show, is not going to help find aliens. (Unless they are running around in the woods looking for Bigfoot).mommywarriorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00361155681970144199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8104600450225406597.post-32146473091274242252013-03-11T19:19:40.572-07:002013-03-11T19:19:40.572-07:00Rickscr: "Sorry I am wrong it does in fact ex...Rickscr: "Sorry I am wrong it does in fact explain the effects of gravity but what exactly is gravity?"<br /><br />If you bothered to think about it rather than hunting for "a real stumper" you would have realized that we can only explain things in terms of physical laws, of which gravity is one. It just <em>is</em>, exactly like the strong and weak atomic forces. The challenge isn't for someone to explain how/why it works, but for someone to explain why they think this law, extending as far as the telescope can see (gravitational lensing,) can be altered in any way. That would make it not a law, but an effect beholden to some other law (trait of our physical universe) which has left no other signs in the slightest.<br /><br />"You know for a fact ET has never been here? I seriously doubt it. No one can say that for an absolute fact."<br /><br />No one has, despite your claims of "dogmatic blogs." However, getting past some really astounding disingenuousness, you'll notice that the convention wasn't full of people merely entertaining possibilities - like the majority of UFO media, the overall message is that there is good evidence for alien visitation and devices implanted with "dissociated matter" techniques. Now, explain to me what kind of evidence would establish the ability to dissociate matter? Explain to me how Steve Colbern can examine someone for implantation scars, as if these would be immediately discernible from every other kind of minor injury we're prone to? These beings can disregard physics in amazing ways yet still leave behind scars?<br /><br />Instead of nice firm explanations, detailed evidence, and demonstrations that these investigators are both knowledgeable and meticulous, we have guys that can't even operate simple video cameras. Robert was respectful enough to actually attend and listen, and when he simply gave details about how scattered and insubstantial the "evidence" is, we get to see a response that ignores all of the significant issues and tries to appeal to "what we don't know." I'm well aware of what we don't know - what I want to see is what convinces the believers that <em>they</em> do.<br />Al Denelsbeckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13984484059781405644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8104600450225406597.post-47784659018844083312013-03-10T18:05:43.906-07:002013-03-10T18:05:43.906-07:00Rick; Let's assume you're sincere, even th...Rick; Let's assume you're sincere, even though you're reciting the believer's list of fallacious appeals, mere rhetorical devices that can never make a legitimate argument.<br /><br />With some overlap and repetition these devices are: ignore the obvious and appeal to ignorance, what we don't know; appealing to the barest possibility when that possibility is so utterly implausible it's not worth considering; pretending that since our knowledge is forever incomplete and ambiguous, anything, however wild and fanciful, could be true; assuming the answer; non sequitur; appealing to extremes; appealing to hypotheticals.<br /> <br />"what exactly is gravity?" Sounds like something I might have heard at the campus bar about 1970. I'm not playing Mr Wizard for you, but I will say that I've had a lifelong interest in astronomy and couldn't be more wowed by the absolutely fantastic advances made in our knowledge of the Universe in the last century. You might consider that fact.zoamchomskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16519698426338891542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8104600450225406597.post-65660020565344439862013-03-10T00:38:52.564-08:002013-03-10T00:38:52.564-08:00Zoam you know as well as I do that general relativ...Zoam you know as well as I do that general relativity does not in fact explain gravity. Were that the case where is the unified field theory? Sorry I am wrong it does in fact explain the effects of gravity but what exactly is gravity?<br /><br />Is it a particle? Is it a field? Is there a graviton particle? Have I missed something? I notice you had no come back on the dark matter and dark energy thing.<br /><br />JHA I fully agree there is more junk than fact. But all it takes is one case that is authentic to change everything.<br /><br />I know its hard to say we just don't know. But in my mind that is where we are in a lot of the biggest questions that face us all.<br /><br />There are a lot of cases in the UFO area that raise far more questions than answers and there is nothing long since proven in the negative. Could not disagree more Zoam with that assertion. You know for a fact ET has never been here? I seriously doubt it. No one can say that for an absolute fact.<br /><br />Lets say someone for what ever reason comes here has a look and leaves. Some guy see's a craft for a few moments and then its gone to who knows where. You know for a fact that has never happened?<br /><br />Exactly why is that an impossibility? <br /><br />Also JHA the universe is vast beyond comprehension with other solar systems with life far older than ours at least in my mind is an indisputable fact. Even Stephen Hawking has said the math makes it a certainty that life exists elsewhere.<br /><br />What if our civilization lasts another thousand years? Does anyone think we will be lighting a fire under a big tube to get into orbit? I sure hope not.<br />Rickscrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17795784447314326779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8104600450225406597.post-38523129038233549822013-03-09T13:02:39.107-08:002013-03-09T13:02:39.107-08:00UFOlogy, so-called exopolitics et cetera is full o...UFOlogy, so-called exopolitics et cetera is full of junk and we all know it. The galaxy could be teeming with life (it probably is) that has developed interstellar spacetravel (I would guess less likely but nevertheless possible), it doesn't matter, that junk remains junk. By the same token, being skeptical about Bigfoot doesn't mean that you are ruling out the possibility of primates yet undiscovered. It only means that you are skeptical about Bigfoot and the associated lore.<br /><br />And I am not necessarily saying that it _all_ is junk, but a lot of it undoubtedly is and even if an alien spacecraft landed here tomorrow and proved its extraterrestrial origins beyond all doubt it wouldn't change that fact. <br />JHAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05216432598765143455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8104600450225406597.post-41555376498341833952013-03-09T12:51:06.910-08:002013-03-09T12:51:06.910-08:00Rick, we "got" gravity nearly a century ...Rick, we "got" gravity nearly a century ago. Ever hear of Albert Einstein and General relativity?<br /><br />Simply because there might be ETI, even starfaring ET, doesn't mean they're visiting Earth. It's a fairly simple issue, long since determined in the negative.zoamchomskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16519698426338891542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8104600450225406597.post-29193264093469619612013-03-09T12:14:12.474-08:002013-03-09T12:14:12.474-08:00"I've had 5 or 6 excellent sightings of s..."I've had 5 or 6 excellent sightings of strange aerial phenomena including one of a seemingly-foreign craft through binoculars that was as easy to identify as standing next to a parked car. I also videotaped one sighting while in New York City's Central Park."<br /><br />Could we see your purported "UFO" video? Extraordinary claims are easy to make; presenting veracious evidence for those claims to the world is much more difficult. To be blunt, Eddie, claiming to see "flying saucers" doesn't make it so. As I said to one who claimed to have seen a "flying saucer" over Malibu on a Sunday afternoon, "Don't you think other people would have seen it too?" So let us see evidence of your wild claim.<br /><br />Further, Eddie, the "UFO" non-issue isn't about our personal beliefs or a "skeptics vs believers" argument, it's about the totality of facts of the world. And there are no "UFO" facts, only perceptions of stimuli and culturally determined narrative creations, "UFO" REPORTS, which are plentiful. If there were real "UFOs" of any kind we'd all know it already—it would be impossible to keep secret—and it wouldn't be merely the subject of a dead and fossilized pseudoscience and the world's longest-running collective delusion.<br /><br />Eddie, the US military closely monitors near space continuously, there are no visiting ET spacecraft seen. This absence of evidence for the ETH is very good evidence against it.<br /><br />"ALL of the sightings...photos, film, and videos" are utterly inconsequential in the real world. Somehow believers in the "UFO" myth ignore this very obvious and fatal fact.zoamchomskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16519698426338891542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8104600450225406597.post-53017227846668204012013-03-09T10:16:46.402-08:002013-03-09T10:16:46.402-08:00I always find these skeptical typically rather dog...I always find these skeptical typically rather dogmatic blogs rather amusing. To put my comment in perspective.<br /><br />I think we can all agree we find ourselves in the midst of an almost unimaginably vast mostly unknown place we call the universe. With literally trillions of possibilities in terms of other places to host life as we know it.<br /><br />We don't really get gravity. We make things up like dark matter and dark energy to explain phenomena we don't really understand. <br /><br />Yet in spite of this some people seem to find it hard to imagine that someone from elsewhere might have figured out all the above and have technology at their disposal that would appear to us to be almost magical in it capabilities.<br /><br />I think science still has a lot more questions than answers in some area's. So who are any of us to say what is and is not possible?Rickscrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17795784447314326779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8104600450225406597.post-55398390479597531892013-03-08T16:51:01.365-08:002013-03-08T16:51:01.365-08:00How many people attended this 2013 "Internati...How many people attended this 2013 "International UFO Congress"? How did attendance compare to previous years?Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04726872916865592134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8104600450225406597.post-23317693471070889172013-03-08T16:24:38.888-08:002013-03-08T16:24:38.888-08:00I am a 100% skeptic. But unlike you, Robert, I can...I am a 100% skeptic. But unlike you, Robert, I can not be close-minded because I've had 5 or 6 excellent sightings of strange aerial phenomena including one of a seemingly-foreign craft through binoculars that was as easy to identify as standing next to a parked car. I also videotaped one sighting while in New York City's Central Park. The difference between you and I is that I understand why you are a hard-_____ skeptic and I don't think you do. But to put it plainly, you are a true skeptic because you demand evidence and you haven't had a serious UFO sighting, yet. But you can't really deny ALL of the sightings not being something you haven't experienced and there is enough "physical" evidence in the form of thousands (in reality, millions) of photos, film, and videos. I bought your book "THE UFO VERDICT:..." and, trust me, you could have used my editing and logic to make your case.<br /><br />As respected as you are by most (here, at least), continuing to deny the reality of UFOs, across the board, puts you on the same level as the Hills: not truth as we know it, and you are on the opposite side, denying truth.<br />nyceddiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08274058840713454495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8104600450225406597.post-82058390711461695122013-03-08T10:41:48.540-08:002013-03-08T10:41:48.540-08:00And here's a link to the English portions of t...And here's a link to the English portions of the full original website to which this debunker contributed after easily exploding one of the bogus "AA" claims made on the Internet.<br /><br />http://www.sprezzatura.it/Arte/Arte_UFO_eng.htmzoamchomskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16519698426338891542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8104600450225406597.post-29747434735746535762013-03-08T09:28:43.501-08:002013-03-08T09:28:43.501-08:00Wicked, Chris! Hairdressing would certainly be mor...Wicked, Chris! Hairdressing would certainly be more profitable—and rational—than "alien implant" fortune telling at $2 a head! (LOL)<br /><br />If the promoters of this "alien implant" nonsense were capable of conceiving the impossibly radical contingency necessary for it to be true, they'd begin to realize what an utterly absurd joke it is. <br /><br />Hey, tell me, what's this story in a 2011 Saucer Smear: [cda] Throws In The Towel...? Obviously you haven't — thankfully! <br /><br />ufoolery is history; make popular belief in the "UFO" delusion history as well. zoamchomskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16519698426338891542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8104600450225406597.post-62382429510817597672013-03-07T09:06:01.324-08:002013-03-07T09:06:01.324-08:00"The reason for the UFO cover up, [Dolan] sug..."The reason for the UFO cover up, [Dolan] suggested, is because the secret of the UFOs' alien propulsion system threatens petroleum interests,"<br /><br />It's the "500 light-year per gallon secret-technology carburetor" conspiracy theory!<br /><br />Brilliant!<br /><br /><br />zoamchomskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16519698426338891542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8104600450225406597.post-29282987231944080582013-03-06T10:17:36.647-08:002013-03-06T10:17:36.647-08:00Susan, you are thinking much too logically about t...Susan, you are thinking much too logically about this. Most of the UFO proponents don't even see the contradiction. They just imagine a vague 'believer vs. skeptic' scenario, where any pro-UFO claims, no matter how bizarre, strengthen their case. If UFOs are from the future, then they're not also from the Pleiades, or Zeta Reticuli. (Although some would say there are many different aliens from many different places). The same is true of conspiracy theorists. If the Illuminati are in charge, then it's not the Rockefellers or the Reptilians. In Paranormal Logic, the quantity of claims is far more important than their quality or consistency.<br /><br />There is a small number of pro-UFOlogists I call "skeptical believers," like Dantonio, who realize that the great majority of UFO claims are worthless, but believe some to be true unidentifieds. They have accepted premises that I (and most physicists) believe to be wrong, such as 'wormhole travel' or engineering the warping of space, but their conclusions follow logically from their wobbly premises. They are not in the majority in a conference such as this.Robert Sheafferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15324537021429419111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8104600450225406597.post-88608024286766243452013-03-06T10:04:52.697-08:002013-03-06T10:04:52.697-08:00Jim, Antonio is living in Phoenix these days and w...Jim, Antonio is living in Phoenix these days and working for Open Minds. You can contact him there.Robert Sheafferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15324537021429419111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8104600450225406597.post-58901476415228583382013-03-06T05:36:12.777-08:002013-03-06T05:36:12.777-08:00I like the way Steve Colbern examines a woman &quo...I like the way Steve Colbern examines a woman "for alien markings at the alien and scalpel table". <br /><br />Questions:<br /><br />1. Would Colbern have recognised an 'alien marking' if he saw one? Is such a thing known to science? <br /><br />2. Do hospitals or medical centers have such a thing as an 'alien and scalpel table'?<br /><br />At a first glance it looks as if the blonde woman is at a hairdressing salon.<br /><br />cdahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01005702597775594084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8104600450225406597.post-31837350920334174262013-03-05T16:14:41.677-08:002013-03-05T16:14:41.677-08:00The site below explains that UFOs in the old paint...The site below explains that UFOs in the old paintings are a misinterpretation.<br /><br />http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ufoart/esp_ovnis_arte_9.htm<br /><br />TS4072TS4072https://www.blogger.com/profile/14868748913496479906noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8104600450225406597.post-84330527175999843672013-03-05T15:24:35.543-08:002013-03-05T15:24:35.543-08:00I like Ancient Aliens even though I know that most...I like Ancient Aliens even though I know that most of their "facts and translations" are no where near correct. In spite of the obvious flaws, they do occasionally bring up interesting points, such as the centuries old paintings with space craft in the sky.starman1695https://www.blogger.com/profile/07301165791997413427noreply@blogger.com