Continuing from the previous posting, the other UFO case examined in the first episode of Discovery Canada's miserable new series Close Encounters was the Oscar Flight incident at Malmstrom Air Force Base in Montana, March 24, 1967. (The name "Oscar Flight" refers to a particular group of ten missiles.) The claims of UFOs supposedly interfering with missiles are complicated and confusing, and I will do my best to un-confuse them. However, the incident as depicted in Close Encounters is a relatively simple one. A bright, glowing orange UFO is allegedly seen over the base by security men, and then the Oscar Flight missiles were said to start going off-line, one by one. So let's examine that specific claim.
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| Cartes du Ciel shows Mars as seen from Malmstrom AFB around 12AM March 24, 1967, magnitude -1.0 |
Guards reported seeing a bright glowing orange object in the sky (depicted in Close Encounters as a huge, angry, pulsating object hurling down beams). What might it have been? Surprisingly, nobody seems to have asked that question. Whenever witnesses report a bright object in the sky that is red or orange, the first thing to check is whether Mars might have been the culprit. Mars only appears conspicuously bright from earth for a period of a few months every two years. Sure enough, this was one of those times. Mars was only about 3 weeks away from its opposition of April 15, 1967, when it would be directly opposite the sun, and at its maximum brightness until the next opposition 26 months later. It would rise a few hours after sunset, and remain in the sky the rest of the night. The guards were very likely looking at Mars. (Mars will be reaching a similarly-placed opposition on April 8, 2014. Observe it in March, and you'll get a very good idea of how it appeared in March of 1967.)
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| Mars as depicted on Close Encounters |
They reported the UFO sighting on their radio. What happened next? According to former Air Force Lieutenant Robert Salas, the main proponent of this case, the missiles started going off-line one by one, a very troubling development to be sure - if it really happened. (In the U.S., UFOs appear to be peaceful, attempting to interfere with nuclear missiles. But according to the Russian-born UFOlogist Paul Stonehill, UFOs in Russia and the former Soviet Union are warmongering, and attempted to launch nuclear missiles.).
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| Security man writhes on the ground, menaced by the planet Mars. |
The talking heads in this segment were Leslie Kean, and Kevin Randle. Kean wrote about the supposed Oscar Flight incident in chapter 15 of her book UFOs - Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials Go On the Record (see my review of it, ‘Unexplained’ Cases—Only If You Ignore All Explanations). Since Salas isn't a pilot, and certainly isn't a General, I suppose that makes him a "government official."
What proof do we have, other than the claims of Salas, that the Oscar
Flight missiles actually went off-line? Frederick Meiwald, mentioned in
the Close Encounters segment, was Salas' crew commander at that time. In a 1996 letter to Salas about the incident, Meiwald discusses the guards' sighting of a "UFO" (which apparently upset them greatly), but said nothing about any missile failures, the most significant aspect of the alleged incident. So how do we know that the missiles went off-line? Because Salas claims that they did. And that is all. There is no documentary evidence, no paper trail of any kind, concerning the supposed Oscar Flight incident. And there is plenty of reason to expect that this incident would have left a long paper trail, if it were real. Former SAC missile crew commander and skeptic Tim Hebert summarizes where the matter stands:
1. No mentioning of an incident at Oscar Flight in the 341st Unit History.
2. No mentioning of an incident at Oscar Flight in the engineering and analysis report investigating Echo Flight [incident one week earlier].
3. Bernard Nalty [historian of USAF ICBM program] makes no reference to an incident at Oscar Flight [but discusses Echo flight incident]. ("Nalty goes into classified details surrounding the issues affecting all of SAC's Minuteman wings back in the 1967 time frame. Why would an equally important situation affecting Oscar flight not be mentioned?")
4. No statements supporting an incident at Oscar Flight from those individuals that were either topside at Oscar or in the field responding to a security violation.
5. [Capt.] Eric Carlson [crew commander] and [First Lieut.] Walter Figel [deputy crew commander] discount an incident at Oscar Flight.
6. No one in the chain of command up-channeling reports to 15th AF and SAC HQ has come forward supporting an incident at Oscar Flight.
7. Remote, but possible practical joke played on Meiwald and Salas can not be totally ruled out.
As for the Close Encounter narrator's claim that FAA radar detected a UFO over the base on that day, according to skeptic James Carlson (son of Capt. Eric Carlson), while it's true that 'something' was detected on radar, it was more than 120 miles from Oscar Flight (and radars pick up all kinds of things!).
Hebert summarizes where we stand with Oscar flight,
The above 7 points may be enough to rule out even a circumstantial case and cast reasonable doubt on any incident occurring at Oscar. But in the end its up to the reader to decide one way or another and ask the all important question..."Did it really happen?"
So that sums up where things stand concerning the alleged "Oscar Flight incident." However, there was a genuine incident at Malmstrom just one week earlier, on March 16, 1967, where the missiles of the Echo Flight did indeed go off-line. But despite the claims made by Robert Salas, Robert Hastings, and others, it had nothing to do with UFOs! (Hastings is the guy who insisted that CSI(COP), and myself in particular, are disinformation agents funded by the CIA or somebody.)
James Carlson has written a long report on this incident, Echo Flights of Fantasy - Anatomy of a UFO Hoax. Among the discrepancies he notes,
The original documents Salas received state only that "Rumors of Unidentified Flying Objects(UFO) around the area of Echo Flight during the time of fault were disproven.” The loss of the ten missiles that went off of strategic alert was very well documented, as was the investigation that followed, but there has been no mention anywhere that a UFO was reported until Salas’ own claims were made public. There is also no mention of any similar loss of missiles at any other flight on March 16, 1967, or, for that matter, at any other time discussed in any other document published since.
... There were no reports by anybody about anything preceding the Echo Flight shutdown incident, which both Carlson and Figel reaffirmed in September 2010 as well. In 2006, Robert Salas and Robert Hastings adjusted their claims somewhat, asserting that the first report of a UFO came in after the missiles had already started to go off strategic alert, not before, basing this change on an interview conducted with Colonel (Retired) Walter Figel, Jr. Both Carlson and Figel, however, have very clearly insisted that this version of the story is also wrong; both officers insist that UFOs were never reported. This confusion is a result entirely of Robert Hastings’ insistence that the mere mention of the word “UFO”, in the context of a weak joke told by a maintenance technician who was asleep when the missiles startedgoing offline, qualifies as an official UFO report. This theory has no merit whatsoever, primarily becausean actual UFO report would have been forwarded as the signed testimony of the witness for further investigation by the Malmstrom AFB UFO officer, Colonel Lewis D. Chase, as regulations demanded. This did not occur, so very obviously, no report was made. In 1999, Robert Salas readjusted his version of these events once more, insisting that he was not at November Flight when the missiles were taken off of strategic alert, presumably as Meiwald had confirmed three years earlier, but at Oscar Flight. He still asserted, however, that UFOs were reported at both missile sites -- E-Flight and O-Flight – on March 16, 1967, although no UFO sightings were recorded in the region by anybody on that date. There is also no mention anywhere of numerous missiles failing at any time at November Flight or Oscar Flight, whether the result of UFOs or anything else. It’s apparent that Salas was now making claims that had never been convincingly confirmed by anybody.
Tim Printy gives us a further examination of claims about Echo Flight in his excellent E-zine SUNlite2_2 and SUNlite 2_3. He, too, shows that UFOs had nothing to do with the missiles at Echo Flight going off-line.
So, in the case of Oscar Flight, a UFO was sighted [very likely Mars], but no missiles went offline. In the case of Echo Flight, missiles did go offline due to an electronic glitch, but UFOs had nothing to do with it. I can't un-complicate it any more than that.
Very excellent summary, Robert. People tend to forget that this is a very complex case; I think that's how Robert Salas has been able to get away with making these claims for so long without being laughed at continuously. Look at the basic character of his claims, and you always end up with many more questions. (1) He hasn't provided a single eye-witness reporting a UFO; (2) he doesn't have any documentation to support his equipment failure claims, although there is documentation confirming that there were no equipment failures on the date he insists all ten missiles at Oscar Flight had failed; (3) he has no confirming witnesses who are willing to support both aspects of his claims, either second-hand or circumstantially; and (4) it is a matter of record that Salas' story has changed significantly since he first went public with his claims in 1996. It is no exaggeration to assert that Salas' documented inconsistency is the only consistent aspect of his claims. He has changed the date of the incident, the location of the incident, the number of missiles involved, the time of the incident, the order of events, the details of telephone calls made both during and after the incident, the number as well as the names of the individuals who either initiated or participated in the communication of those details (both during and after the incident), both the personal and official responses to the incident, as well as the complete record of USAF personnel who have allegedly confirmed the claims he has made. It's very hard to ignore the fact that the one man Robert Salas has named to confirm his specific account of a UFO at Oscar Flight: his unit commander, Colonel Frederick Meiwald. Meiwald has stated that he remembers no more than four missiles ever failing while he was on duty. He insisted as well that he remembered nothing in regard to a UFO sighted during a missile failures incident, which apparently occurred on a date he also does not recall, all of which he admitted outright to Robert Hastings during a telephone interview, the clear contents of which Hastings has chosen to ignore, insisting instead that Meiwald confirmed 100% of Salas' UFO assertions.
ReplyDeleteJames Carlson
*** Technical Bulletin ***
ReplyDeleteMalmstrom AFB
DATE: March 25, 1967
SUBJECT: Oscar Flight system going off-line
ISSUE:
On March 24, First Lieut. Mars, monitoring the Oscar Flight's system, noticed that the missile icon light was displaying RED indicating that the system was deactivated.
Extraterrestrials using an unknown force, deliberately, and for reasons unknown was able to press the missile system's DEACTIVE button.
REMEDIATION:
Steps:
1) Enter the following activation code: H, O, A, X. Press the OK button.
2) On the main control panel press the ACTIVE button until the missile icon light displays GREEN.
3) If the Extraterrestrial force presses the DEACTIVE again, then repeat steps 1 thru 2 until missile icon light stays GREEN.
Robert,
ReplyDeleteAppreciate that you've posted my thoughts on the Oscar Flight affair, as well as providing links to my blog site.
I found the opening of your post interesting that Mars could have played a roll in the security teams visual observations. That's all very well from a theoretical point of view, if it could be proven that the security personnel did in fact see and report something to Salas and Meiwald. There is nothing to support that such a thing happened other than what both officers stated some decades later. And, of course, both officers perceived different things on the night in question. Both were ignorant of each others story until years later when Salas had interviewed Meiwald for his book "Faded Giant". Thus one of the many morphing of the story.
Added to all of the above that after 45 years none of the security team members have ventured forth to confirm the story. With a minimum of 8 individuals topside, you would think that at least one of them would have come forward to verify the story. As of now, no one has come forward.
Recently, Salas had disclosed (Paul Kimball via Billy Cox?) that he had undergone hypnosis in the mid 1980s to help recall certain aspects of the incident, as well as claiming that he was abducted by aliens. I believe this further puts a stake in the heart of credibility in my opinion. Canadian viewers were not privy to that tid bit of info, were they?
From my stand point, Salas' claims stretches coherence to the nth degree and more and more moves into the realm of total confabulation or...an elaborate hoax was perpetrated on him while out in the field that day.
Again, thanks for the post, its much appreciated.
Looked at Tim Printy's Sunlite explanation for the alien (grey) images on so many airforce & NASA & Pysops uniform patches.
ReplyDeleteIt would seem the whole crowd , especially USAF personnel are fond of HOAX's.
How then can the comments of one member, be used to verify that another is lying or a Hoax.
Especially, according to Printy, when the commanding officer upon seeing a Hoax Patch enquires " Where can I get one?".
IT seems the entire USAF is a jokesters paradise & prone to HOAXing !!
This must be the logical scientific conclusion since most major UFO cases have involved the USAF or Astronauts. Blue Book must be a HOAX too!!!
Roswell started because airbase claims "Flying Disk Captured" another Hoax or the stories about balloons we have been fed ever since........
Those uniform patches denote Air Force Special Security Services personnel. See Mr. Sheaffer's book UFO Sightings.for epexegesis concerning them.
DeleteNot fond of hoaxes. They are simply fond of finding humor in the claims that the AF is covering up UFOs. As I have stated previously, unless you have served or associated with people in the military, it is sometimes difficult to understand. I find the humor in it. Apparently, a lot of UFO proponents don't see the joke.
ReplyDeleteDo you also find the humour of the helicopter crew involved in Mannings Wikileaked video collateral damage, where after straffing the civilians on the ground with heavy machine gun fire they proclaim- "NICE!"
DeleteThis is one of my main problems with skeptics. USAF turned hero astronauts Cooper & Mitchell are tall tale tellers>LIARS?
Because the base PR man says it wasnt true?
Thorough pyschological evaluation must be taken before military personnel are trusted with Nuclear weapons & billion dollar hardware ,yet somehow they are dillusional?
Sorry, No, I cant see the humour that the Generals in charge of these things invent a thing called MAD> Mutually Assurred Destruction !!
Can use soldiers as atomic guinea pigs, or as lab rats for MLK Ultra mind altering drugs, or the term collateral damage or friendly fire!
To think they are NOT capable of hiding the UFO phenomenon is the only joke I see......(they have only just disclosed Area 51 exists)
NASA proudly admits they use TMA trimetylaluminum in sounding rockets to observe wind patterns in the upper atmosphere - white smoke trails
But if anyone suggests its in the jet fuel to create chemtrails they are a raving conspiracy loon...
Ridicule is not humour, its a form of bullying
I don't know about other missileers, but Robert Salas absolutely IS a liar, a charge repeatedly proven and well-confirmed by documentation, witnesses, and his own propensity to change his story whenever some element of it is proven wrong. The fact is that the very same witnesses Salas has used as confirmation for his claims have insisted that he is a liar who has purposely distorted their testimony to suggest the existence of a UFO that was simply not there.
DeletePersonally, I find it grotesque, irresponsible, and damn insulting that you're assessing alleged UFO contacts by implying that they're comparable to an act of murder. It's sickening and misplaced. And if you knew anything at all about psychology, you would have figured out that a state of delusion is not consistent. The fact that a missileer has undergone a "psychological evaluation" forty years ago does not imply that the conclusions reached during that examination should be considered a permanent characteristic of that individual's mental state. Just as you're not born delusional, you're never guaranteed immunity from delusion.
That's the problem with UFO proponents -- they never think things out and they refuse to learn anything about the issues addressed before airing out their opinions.
Deano: "This is one of my main problems with skeptics. USAF turned hero astronauts Cooper & Mitchell are tall tale tellers>LIARS?
ReplyDeleteBecause the base PR man says it wasnt true?"+
This is one of my main problem with rabid 'believers', they fantasize and confabulate even the most easily checkable evidence. I don't recall anyone, especially the AF, ever claiming Mitchell is a 'liar', merely that he is trusting and repeating hearsay, without any first-hand experience [except to also say he never saw any UFO 'coverup' at NASA]. And private researchers such as myself have expressed unwillingness to believe Cooper's later stories not on any official 'say-so' but on its utter inconsistency with the testimony of every other witness and investigator [see www.jamesoberg.com/ufo.html, scroll down]. Or does Deano insist we believe, from Cooper's own book, that he saved the space shuttle program from a lethal design flaw by relaying to friends there a telepathic warning from space aliens, when there's no separate record that the described flaw ever existed, much less was changed on Cooper's claimed advisory?
My problem with skeptics and so called rabid 'believers' alike is that neither one of them usually are the actual witnesses to the events in question. As far as I know there has been no official confirmation of what caused the missiles to go down. Yet there was a fairly technical investigation that came afterwards with the 'possibility' of the EMP stuff. However the investigation could not confirm this. So as far as I am concerned all options are on the table. None of you really have the answers to any of this. To caught up in trashing each other to the point where the actual event(s) are a minor point. None of you have the answers and should always remember to take your meds and learn to spell.
Delete1ST to Jim O. I have tried to find info on the Kecksburg event which you claim was Cosmos 96, & Nasa states that no way it could have been?
ReplyDeleteIs McClelland a LIAR too? This whole event is a mix of different stories,but most myths & legends include some piece of FACT.>military & Nasa involvement!
2ND to James Carlson. If you are so good at writing, I suggest you re-read comments & proofread your own before blasting into a tirade of insults! My comments were in reference to the "humour" in military circles which I dont find funny at all. Here in Australia, we love fishing, & love a good "BITE".
It seems in your eagerness to rant , I caught you HOOK,LINE & SINKER & tossed you flapping into the bottom of the blood & guts coated Tinnie(Aluminium runabout) to trash amongst the worms & milky fish scales that you so eloquently use to describe UFO proponents, trying to gain everlasting fame by telling lies.
I am not seeking fame or money, just the truth. Whereas you, with your hyperbolated, Shakespearen drivel, seek everlasting fame with your ranting blogs & defamotary books.
The pen ,in this case, might be the sword that breaks your back!
Robert is a gentleman with dignity, P.J.Klass at least stuck to his guns, J,C?
Definately not, you need a miracle!
AS I have said before, one of the main reasons I do believe in UFOs, apart from the 1000s of photos,videos,eyewitness reports(pilots,astronauts,police,military,presidents etc), the Cropcirc,le phenomenon, cattle mutilations, & unexplainable megalithic stuctures, IS THE incredible lengths that the govt, USAF, de-bunkers & sites such as this,Metabunk & other Skeptic assoc. adopt in what seems an outright War on the TRUTH & accusing everyone as liars,crazy,dillusional or subjecting them to fierce character assassination,slander or ridicule!
If there is no phenomenon occurring,why bother at all?
The fact that Jim O works for Nasa & CSI, or that James Carlson's father worked at the actual missile base in question, would be regarded as dismissable evidence in a court of law by slight of interest....
You've just proven my point that you don't think things out and you refuse to learn anything about the issues addressed before airing your unsupportable opinions. For instance:
DeleteDo you know anything at all about "myths & legends", or are you just guessing? What exactly makes you believe that "most myths & legends include some piece of FACT"? Do you believe that Ulysses went into the realm of the dead to question people about subjects he neglected to raise while they were alive? Or how about the blood sacrifice that the Aztecs relied on? Is there some FACT behind the myths and legends that demanded the sacrifice of hundreds in order to prevent drought? Do you think there's some FACT behind the myths and legends that the future can be read in the disemboweled remains of a pigeon? Are you suggesting that there's some fact behind the myths and legends about Santa Claus and how he can visit every child's home across the entire world to leave gifts in stockings? Or coal? What fact lies behind the legend that blowing out all the candles on your birthday cake in one breath will buy you a single wish? What facts do you associate with the tooth fairy? What weird facts account for the myth that Jews sacrifice Christian children? Or the myth that the size of your brain determines the extent of your intellect? Or the legend of Pecos Bill lassoing a tornado? Or the moon is made of green cheese? Or a rabbit's foot brings good luck? Or breaking a mirror gives you seven years of bad luck? Or the seventh son of a seventh son will become a vampire upon his death? I'm sure I'm not the only person who believes that your assessment of myths and legends indicates little more than your refusal to learn anything about the issues addressed, i.e., myths and legends, before airing your unsupportable opinions.
As for re-reading your comments, my examination of your character starts with your assessment that the "humour" military personnel often find in the belief of UFO proponents that the USAF is covering up UFOs is somehow comparable to the "humour" that NOBODY finds in regard to a "helicopter crew involved in Mannings Wikileaked video collateral damage, where after straffing the civilians on the ground with heavy machine gun fire they proclaim 'NICE!'" There is no comparison, and your attempts to suggest such a link is both asinine and unjustified. I don't know ANYBODY in the military who finds crap like that humorous, and your attempt to suggest some kind of non-existent link is malicious and irresponsible and insulting. The same is true in regard to “Mutually Assurred Destruction”, the use of soldiers as "atomic guinea pigs, or as lab rats for MLK Ultra mind altering drugs, or the term collateral damage or friendly fire!" Your desire to associate these tragic matters with the propensity of military personnel to find humor in the suggestion promoted by civilian conspiracy mavens that the USAF has conducted a cover-up of UFOs is little more than a pathetic attempt to lump tragedy with comedy in some blind and silly attempt to belittle one at the expense of the other. It's transparently abusive to both tragedy and comedy.
A great many military personnel, however, find the suggestion of a UFO cover-up conducted by the military a complete and utter joke and VERY humorous. Your subsequent suggestion that skeptics insist "hero astronauts Cooper & Mitchell" are liars is equally insulting. As Jim O. stated, "I don't recall anyone, especially the AF, ever claiming Mitchell is a 'liar'", so once again, you've managed to prove my point that you don't think things out and you refuse to learn anything about the issues addressed before airing your unsupportable opinions. Perhaps you should find out what people actually believe before expressing your disgust with those beliefs. For example, your belief that I describe UFO proponents as "trash amongst the worms & milky fish scales" is also notable, primarily because it indicates that you cannot understand the English language.
DeleteWhat I actually said is clear: "It is precisely because we are unoriginal and suggestible that we all too often owe our dreams and our dilemmas to the feckless men who follow behind those rare few worthy of our symptomatic regard. This is, in fact, our worst quality, the most ungracious description of the human character. We try so hard to live the dreams of other men that we forget how to create dreams of our own. This cultural amnesia ultimately forces us to rely on unnatural and ultimately meaningless tales for the sustenance of heart our temporal lives demand, allowing them entrance into minds and emotions that represent the undefined legacy of our species. Once there, they flop and scuttle before us like breathless fish at the bottom of a boat next to a couple of cracked sinkers and ugly, wretched bits of worm and cricket, and the milky scales of day-old snappers. It is our suggestibility that makes them real, not some natural and inborn quality possessed by the measurable habitations of life" [please see: http://www.realityuncovered.net/blog/2013/10/saucers-over-albuquerque-a-farce-in-three-acts-2/].
Our reliance on "unnatural and ultimately meaningless tales" upon which to draw conclusions, as if they contain some kind of factual basis that we can actually learn something from is an unfortunate phenomenon, because humans tend to manage the conclusions they reach within both intellectual and emotional contexts. It is the "unnatural and ultimately meaningless tales" we ultimately rely on that represent "trash amongst the worms & milky fish scales" not UFO proponents. Your misunderstanding of this appraisal is somewhat ironic, however, given your apparent belief that "most myths & legends include some piece of FACT." This unfortunate belief of yours supports my assessment nicely. It's clear that you've reached an unsupported conclusion that "unnatural and ultimately meaningless tales," i.e., "myths & legends," contain some measure of FACT indicates that you've once again neglected to think things out while refusing to learn anything about the issues addressed before airing your unsupportable opinions. Perhaps you should try a little harder instead of merely failing to attempt some level of understanding. And yet, you nonetheless affirm that you "are not seeking fame or money, just the truth." Really? You need to work on that part of it, because you've gotten nowhere. All you've done is insult me by insisting that I'm seeking fame with "ranting blogs & defamotary books." More crap, frankly. Tell me, though: what have I written that is defamatory? Everything I've written can be supported by facts, while all you've managed to do is interpret the English language poorly.
Another conclusion you've based on nothing is your contention that "Robert is a gentleman with dignity". You apparently don't know him very well, or your estimation of "dignity" has lowered the bar significantly. Robert Salas spent the first ten years of his ministry refusing to discuss, examine, or even mention the conclusions reached independently by three men who had already established the falsity of his claims at Echo Flight, including those statements already issued by COL Lewis D. Chase, the UFO officer at Malmstrom AFB who was responsible for investigating UFO reports in March 1967. Instead, Salas waited until all three men had died before addressing their claims, at which point he publically eviscerated them, doing everything possible to destroy their reputations and depict them as both dishonest and unintelligent. Yeah, Robert's a class act, pal I'm glad to see you're standing tall to defend this mercenary and offensive fraud, because it supports so well your propensity for neglecting to think things out while refusing to learn anything about the issues addressed before airing your unsupportable opinions.
DeleteYour stated belief in the "incredible lengths that the govt, USAF, de-bunkers & sites such as this, Metabunk & other Skeptic assoc. adopt in what seems an outright War on the TRUTH & accusing everyone as liars, crazy, dillusional or subjecting them to fierce character assassination, slander or ridicule!" is just hilarious, a conclusion that many military personnel have also reached. There's a lot of humor in your paranoia, particularly given your neglect of any real research to support your claims. This is a characteristic you share with a lot of UFO proponents. You'll apparently believe anything ridiculous without bothering to attempt a simple act of confirmatory assessment, a quality that once again supports my contention that UFO proponents "never think things out and they refuse to learn anything about the issues addressed before airing out their opinions."
Evidence for this can also be found by merely answering the following question: why is it that those most inclined to raise an issue as assessed by "a court of law" lack the knowledge necessary to reasonably apply the law to the arguments they've raised? There is no "dismissable evidence" in the arguments I've established. My father, Eric Carlson, the commander of Echo Flight, Walt Figel, the deputy commander of Echo Flight, and Frederick Meiwald, the commander of Oscar Flight, have all released their own statements affirming the fraudulent claims of Robert Salas, and are direct witnesses to the falsity of his claims. While Salas continues to state that both my father and Walt Figel have confirmed his UFO story, both men insist that there was no UFO sighted, reported, or investigated. They insist that Salas is lying, and has purposefully distorted their statements to suggest the presence of a UFO that was not there. Salas’ continued claim that a UFO caused all of the missiles at Echo Flight to shut down is particularly egregious, not only because the entire crew at Echo Flight strongly denies his assessment, but also because Salas has never served at Echo Flight and has no first-hand knowledge of ANYTHING that may have occurred there. It's a point of fact that everytime Salas tells people that Carlson and Figel have confirmed his UFO stories, he is, by definition, LYING.
In addition, Salas’ own crew commander, Frederick Meiwald, has refused to confirm these UFO claims, insisting that he has no memory of a UFO at Oscar Flight, although he did state that he remembers four missiles failing during one of his watches. Of course, Salas insists that all ten missiles failed -- not four -- a difference having little real relevance given that Meiwald has never associated those missile failures with a UFO.
Meiwald has also stated (since 1996) that he was never debriefed by the OSI nor any of the officers that Salas has claimed. In 1996, Meiwald told Salas that the two of them had served only at Oscar Flight. This claim alone is somewhat problematic for Salas, since Salas insisted for another three years after Meiwald addressed this issue that they had both served at November Flight. Apparently, Salas had little faith in the records his commander had saved, although he did continue to use Meiwald as a confirmation for his UFO claims.
DeleteThat’s three launch officers who underwent "pyschological evaluation" in order to be "trusted with Nuclear weapons & billion dollar hardware." To a man they insist that Salas is lying. The fact that Salas has repeatedly changed his story every time some element of it has been proven wrong also contributes to this conclusion. You would have realized this had you actually conducted a little research before spouting off in regard to these matters, thereby basing your conclusions on issues that have absolutely nothing to do with the case that's been established.
All three of these witnesses have also, in fact, claimed that they don't even believe in UFOs! And yet Salas would have you believe that they have confirmed the threat they represent at the very least to nuclear missiles. It's hard not to conclude that in addition to your inability to conduct a little standard research, you simply aren't very bright.
As for your insistent yet somehow naive belief in UFOs, I’ve got to tell you, it’s just as irrelevant as your sad little response above. Believe whatever you like, but keep in mind that UFO proponents have failed to prove ANYTHING in regard to UFOs for over 60 years now -- including the misguided belief that they somehow represent a security risk to any nation on this planet. With all of your inborn knowledge regarding “myths & legends”, you should probably have learned by now a useful lesson or two from the past. For instance, over the course of about 500 years, those men and women who strongly believed in witchcraft -- another fallacious and irresponsible bit of paranoia that people testified to and insistently measured by intellect and reason as having some basis in FACT -- ultimately failed to establish any facts at all. What they did manage to do was execute hundreds of thousands of innocent people on the basis of little more than their own paranoia and their insistent belief that Jesus Christ thought witches were too threatening to the security of the Church to be allowed to live. Like you in relation to your belief in UFOs, they believed very strongly and solidly in witchcraft, and they believed that witches were consistently attending sabbats during which they had sexual congress with demons, animals, and heretics of all faiths, during which they pledged their bodies and minds to Satan and the destruction of everything that others may have considered Holy. And like you, they were wrong.
In the same way that people today shake their heads and wonder what could possibly have been so wrong with the basic morality, the true senses, and the dire judgments of the Witch-Finder Generals, the Grand Inquisitors, the Torsåker Judges, the Councils of Elvira, and all instances of secular courts demanding relief from the aggressive crimes of witches, sorcerers, and warlocks, people tomorrow will shake their heads, giggle a little bit (because, after all, people like you are not going out and killing thousands of other people, they’re just being silly, fearful, and insulting), and wonder what the Hell was wrong with all those UFO proponents that they were unable to work their minds around and through such an obvious bit of foolishness typified more by the abusive lies and profiteering of pathetic men seeking to retire in stolen comfort than in anything that might have provided some distant measure of honest assessment. And then they’ll wonder why you guys didn’t just go back to school to learn something useful.
DeleteOne bit of advice for you: the next time you decide to criticize someone else’s writing, in addition to putting a little more effort into understanding the language and the meanings of actual words being used, you might take some time out to learn how your little spell-check works, because like your beliefs, you really can’t depend on your own mind to make those spelling decisions work out well for you -- seriously, you’re sickening with this crap, and it implies a basic inability to think things out while refusing to learn anything about actual issues being addressed -- a quality you share with many other UFO proponents.
Abracadabra, pal. Let the witch wights soar.
The thing is, James, I can't shake the feeling that there will be something else replacing UFOs for the true believers of tomorrow. P.T. Barnum surely believed in the endless supply of the credulous. Like him, the purveyors of UFO tales rake in the cash, although he, at least, advertised his wares as entertainment.
DeleteYou're right, of course. I guess the best we can do is study our own history and try to remain optimistic. Unfortunately, I don't think that option is possible unless we completely destroy C-SPAN first. Spread the word -- join the revolution!
DeleteJames, I rest my case. Got it all out now kid?
ReplyDeleteFor a start, I thought it would be obvious to anyone that the "Robert" I was referring to is Robert Schaeffer,the creator of this blog. I started with him, then Klass, then you - J.C. Talk about proof -read & paranoia.....
Jim O would have us believe, that Gordon Cooper is prone to telling tall tales-isnt this a "nice" way of saying he LIES? Mitchell is just ignored.
Myths & Legends? More of your drivel rantings about Santa, Tooth fairy,vampires & Mooon cheese blah,blah.blah.
When I think of myths & legends I think of pre-christianity.
Did not the German part-time archaeologist Schlieman, follow Platos descriptions of the Legendary city of Troy(Trojan Horse myth) to indeed find it on the shores of modern day Turkey?
His descriptions of Atlantis may indeed prove true, the Bimini Road & recent underwater finds off the coast of Cuba are now being investigated.
There is also the legend of The Hall of Records under the Sphinx, they are there but being hidden by that idiot Hawass, who also denied there is no tunnel complex under the Pyramids, yet filmed "Chasing Mummies" in there!
The largest myth to mankind is the Old Testament. The stories contained have been proven by much earlier Sumerian Tablets> Noah, the Ark & the Flood is based on these.
Even the origins of Mankind, created as a slave race to mine for gold, is another Sumerian legend that now could be true with the findings in South Africa. Loook up Adams Calender & 200 000yr old stone metropolis that can even be seen on Google Earth> bldgs,roads, & terraces. Myth? The evidence is there, but history books will have to be re-written!
As for my UFO beliefs, apart from the 1000s of videos & photos, perhaps you can explain to me my sleep paralysis,missing time event, the scoop mark on my leg, & confirmation of this by the witnesses in an Australian UFO documentary called "OZ Encounters". Women with scars as photo evidence, Police Sergeant's verification of UFO event(knew him personally) & none of us write books to make personal gain> we just want the TRUTH, be known & public.
I am sickening because I cant spell a few words correctly? Sorry Mr Bachelor of Arts or English Professor, I am a tradesman & dont have the TIME to study a thesaurus or dictionary, but Skeptic should be spelt as Sceptic FYI !!!!
How about modern govt myths?
Do you believe 2 planes could demolish 3 bldgs on 9/11?
Gulf of Tonkin wasnt false flag?
NSA doesnt spy on you?
WMD in Iraq?
Babies thrown from incubators in Kuwait?
The same govt that has had a policy of UFO denial as laid out in Blue Book?
We do not believe they are a security risk, they are here to help & make sure we dont destroy the planet with Nuclear war.
It was the NSA that was set up to determine if they were, what do they do now?
The new WITCH-HUNT is in progress> Conspiracy Theorists.
Exposing the Truth is a crime these days- Manning,Assange & Snowden.
Dont forget it was Daniel Elsegood that exposed the Vietnam War & Watergate, they tried to jail him, or is that myth & legend too?
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteI removed this comment as it contained personal attacks. James, it's OK to explain how you think other posters are wrong, but please refrain from name-calling and personal insults.
DeleteMy apologies. I thought the symptoms displayed by deano were sufficient to establish a diagnosis of delusion and lunacy. In any case, I'll refrain from affirming such a diagnosis in the future. It won't happen again.
DeleteMore abuse , & personal attacks from a govt shill. You want to destroy C-SPAN?
ReplyDeleteI apologise, it was Homer, but you have verified that some myths are actual fact.
Zawi Hawass has been the biggest obstruction to Egyption Archaeology. He did not find the caves, it was the English researcher Andrew Collins. Hawass has placed an iron gate blocking the entrance at the Tomb of the Birds. If you believe that idiot , you would believe anything.
AS for Ellsberg(apologize for Elsegood) you state " administration not relied on illegal methods to ensure conviction".
So you admit that US govt is capable of illegal activity. Not one response to all the nefarious actions of the govts that came after, & you want to destroy C_SPAN, the watchdog trying to keep them honest?
Conspiracy's are theories until they are proven true. Then they become FACT.> a CONSPIRACY.
Educate yourself & look up "33 Conspiracies Proven True"
Lastly, I'm delusional? Do you think people deliberately hollow out their skin to make a Scoop Mark? This is physical evidence, something "slanderous lunatics" like yourself just cant comprehend, just like that their govt isnt capable of committing atrocities.
Hmmmm. Just like when your father being interviewed about you, his son>
"He's got some problems".............
Now you're just spreading more of Robert Hastings' slander; my Dad never said that, and he's mentioned so on many occasions. As for the rest of your drivel, you have no facts to support your claims, and you're being lead on by you own paranoia and your proven inability to determine fact from fiction -- after all, you've raised numerous arguments that have been proven to be fictitious in your statements above. Given that you've been unable to get your facts straight even when attempting to convince others to at least examine your point of view, I think it's probably safe to say that you aren't equipped to reach valid conclusions. You're attempting to establish a fact-based position using as your starting point various elements of fiction. Combined with your noted inability to understand the issues or even the standard definition of terms used to describe those issues, I think it's apparent that your point of view can't be argued on the basis of its own merits -- or even on the basis of reasonable understanding. For instance, I've never stated anywhere that the government isn't capable of committing atrocities; what I've stated (very clearly, in fact) is that you have no evidence to support your numerous positions. However, if you're correct in regard to your claims that you possess physical evidence, it should be easy for you to prove the point by merely suing the government on the basis of incurred harm or neglect to the extent of the government's failure to prevent that harm by covering up it's actual source. Plenty of lawyers would be more than happy to pursue such an argument on a contingency basis. So take it to the courts. Should you win such a case, I'll be more than willing to apologize to you personally, and to admit publically that I'm wrong in regard to both UFOs and alien "visitors", and will thereafter support the claims of those who are attempting establish such a condition. Let me know how that goes for you.
Deletedeano, let's cut to the chase, did you find the Discovery-Canada segment dealing with Robert Salas' claims convincing? If so, please tell me why. If not, again please tell me why.
ReplyDeleteWell, I guess deano doesn't possess any physical evidence after all -- or it's possible, I suppose, that he doesn't understand the concept of "evidence" any more than he understands the concept of a "convincing" claim.
ReplyDeleteRobert Hastings has replied to this posting with a savage salvo:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.theufochronicles.com/2014/02/skeptic-robert-sheaffer-solves-famous.html
Tim Hebert answers his claims at:
http://timhebert.blogspot.com/2014/02/robert-hastings-responds-to-robert.html#comment-form
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THIS ARTICLE AND LISTENING TO THE TWO PHONE CONVERSATIONS WITH RETIRED U.S. AIR FORCE COLONEL WALTER FIGEL TO ANYONE INTERESTED IN GETTING TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS DEBATE OVER THE CLAIMS OF UFO's BEING MENTIONED AT ECHO BASE.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ufohastings.com/articles/the-echo-oscar-witch-hunt