Travis Walton - The Empire Strikes Back!

As we have seen in the past few postings, the 45-year old "UFO abduction" story of Travis Walton ("Fire in the Sky") is suddenly under scrutiny as never before. On Friday, July 23 producer Ryan Gordon once again appeared on Erica Lukes' program UFO Classified. He had almost four hours for himself, unlike the two hours he had the previous week, when he followed Mike Rogers, the woodcutters' crew chief. Gordon went over much of the same material as he did the previous week, but with better organization, more time, and more detail. Host Erica Lukes, and guest Barry Greenwood, seemed very impressed. It was difficult to argue with what Gordon was saying (which is why Walton's defenders typically misrepresent what he said).

This poses a serious problem for what one might call Retail UFOlogy, those who derive their income from TV programs, lectures, conferences and workshops, etc. If a skeptic picks off a modest UFO case here and there, it does them no serious harm - even they admit that there are many phonies out there, but you can rest assured that anything these experts put forward as genuine absolutely is! 😏 But the powerful assault on Travis Walton's classic tale, which won surprisingly strong support very quickly, is sending shock waves throughout UFOlogy - so much so that the 'Pentagon UFO report' that dominated the news for many months is scarcely even being mentioned. Something must be done to save Travis Walton!

The Empire Strikes Back

Five of UFOOLogy's major players gather to defend the Travis Walton yarn.
Peter Robbins on KGRA Broadcasting

 

The first major blow from the UFO Empire striking back came on the Webcast "Meanwhile Here on Earth", hosted by Peter Robbins on July 26. Robbins was a close associate of the late UFO abductionist Budd Hopkins, and was affiliated with Hopkins' Intruders Foundation, promoting the idea that 'UFO abductions' are real, and in fact rather common. The subject of that show was "The Travis Walton Contorversy" (!!), and it contained a hodgepodge of misinformation.

Robbins, who has long had an association with Walton, began by saying that he had never before done a show with "an adversarial content," but circumstances dictated this. He compared the attack on Travis to the assassination of JFK, or John Lennon. Worse yet, he said that an attack is waiting in the wings to bring down Betty and Barney Hill! Aux armes, citoyens! Formez vos bataillons! Robbins claimed that all seven of the woodcutters were lifelong friends, and grew up together in Snowflake, AZ. Nope! Only Travis and Mike fit that description: the other guys grew up elsewhere, and they hardly knew each other.

Kathleen Marden, neice of the late Betty Hill, who uses hypnosis to uncover UFO abductions, is very upset about all this. So is Denise Stoner, who was abducted along with her family in 1982 in the area of South Park, Colorado (the very place where the aliens gave Cartman an anal probe in Episode 1 of Series 1 of that famous show. Aliens must love South Park.). She and Marden are collaborators in UFO abduction research, and have written a book together, The Alien Abduction Files. 

Charlie Wiser and her NSA handler.

James E. Clarkson is a UFOlogist with a background in police investigations. He is an expert in UFO crashes, and we're not talking about just Roswell, or Kecksburg. There are several other UFO crashes that the government is covering up, and Clarkson can tell you about those.  He talked about Charlie Wiser, the pseudonomyous Australian woman whose website ThreeDollarKit.com, contains a detailed debunking of the Walton story, as well as that of Barney and Betty Hill (hence their obvious worries about defending that story next). Clarkson said that Charlie might be a "cover story" for some sinister government agency. She might be a "unit" in the NSA. Clarkson claimed that when Travis returned, his mental and physical condition was so deteriorated that he was in the hospital for five days. Wrong! As Charlie later noted on Twitter, "Travis was at bro’s house in Phoenix. By day 3 he was in a hotel paid for by the Enquirer. By day 4 he was failing their polygraph."

 Jennifer W. Stein is the producer and director of the documentary film Travis, about you-know-who, so you'd think she would know the story well. However, she was a font of misinformation. She claimed that the loggers were not driving on Rim Road where the tower is, despite abundant testimony that they were. She said that all six woodcutters saw the UFO disappear. Comments from viewers would sometimes appear on-screen, and Charlie Wiser managed to get a single comment through - that according to Travis' book, only Mike saw the object disappear - before she was blocked. Can't have anyone bringing up inconvenient facts!

Everybody joined in to attack the mental state of Mike Rogers, the former crew chief who has of late had some seious disagreements with Travis. Mike is claiming on his Facebook page that Travis owes him tens of thousands of dollars because of agreements they had, but Travis won't pay him a dime. Mike is mentally ill, they all agreed, and it's unethical for people to take advantage of him (i.e., repeat what he says about Travis).

After the show, Charlie Wiser precipitated a Twitter storm (some have called it a "typhoon"), pointing out errors in what these "experts" said. She concludes with,

Peter is infuriated with Charlie Wiser.
Oh, that’s me.
Peter, instead of fretting about who I am, deal with the evidence.
Also, don’t trample on strawmen. They have pain receptors because quantum physics and also it’s a sucky way to argue.
I know I'm snarky. This case makes me angry. A stupid hoax spun out of control and the perpetrators did not come clean. This moral failure ruined innocent lives.
You like Travis, therefore his story is true?
“Use your critical thinking.” - Peter Robbins.
THE END

Then immediately following Robbins' show, Jimmy Church hosted Travis Walton for three hours on his show "Fade to Black". Church, who previously was a big promoter of the "Roswell Slides," began by thanking Peter Robbins, apparently for helping out the 'defend Travis' cause. As for the Travis trolls, he said, I'll block you immediately. Church instructed his call screener, "Anybody named Wiser, kick 'em out."

On the previous show, Jennifer Stein had said that the woodcutters all knew the area around the Gentry tower, and would not be fooled by it. But here Travis threw in an unexpected curve: “I’ve never been to that tower, never seen it - would not be normal for us to drive past Gentry ... it’s actually the first I’ve ever seen of what that tower looks like.” So much for that argument.

Charlie Wiser started another Twitter thread, to deal with the misinformation on  this show. 

Church: “Did anybody search for you near Gentry Tower? How far out did the search perimeter go?”

Travis: “Well I don’t know, but I’m sure it was as thorough as they thought it needed to be.”

Charlie:"Here, I’ll help:" And she produces a quote from the APRO Bulletin (November, 1975) saying that about 40-50 men searched a 2 1/2 mile radius. Which, centered on the false "abduction site", near Turkey Springs, does not extend as far as Gentry. 

One common point of confusion: When Rogers guided searchers to look for Travis, of course he took them to a bogus site, reportedly just 300 yards from the work site at Turkey Springs, instead of the actual site, the Gentry tower. This is where Travis and Mike tell people the incident occurred, so people don't go to the actual site, and become curious about the tower.

(The story continues.)

Travis Walton and Ryan Gordon Chat Like Old Friends

Travis Walton, whose claim of a famous UFO abduction in 1975 is increasingly under scrutiny as a hoax,  has been publicly saying bad things about producer Ryan Gordon ("one guy out there who wants to make a movie is making all of it up"). Podcast host Jimmy Church, who will be hosting Travis on his next show (July 26), says "anybody out there commenting, in any fashion, whether they are a wanna be movie maker, show host, "researcher", or just someone in the community that wants to talk some smack, has NOT spoken to Travis... I have... at length, TODAY."

 

 

Travis wrote on Mike Rogers' Facebook page (July 19), "I have never personally met Mike's partner Ryan Gordon." The following conversation with Travis Walton, recorded by Ryan Gordon on July 21, 2021, shows what a lie that is. It clearly shows that they have wroked together previously.

    

Ryan, in the call: "I want to sincerely thank you for the time that we were able to spend together.".

Here is a selection from the transcript of that call:

Ryan: Right! Thank you, thank you for defending me because that's - I mean, again you and I have always got along just fine. So, the intent of this call is to say you were right. You were right, I was wrong.

Travis: It’s not just me making these observations [about Mike Rogers]. Just about everybody who knows him -
Ryan: Yeah, you're right on that as well. I know that the way that I met him [Mike] out there at the site there in Turkey Springs, was bizarre. I mean, I was out there with a film crew, he's out there with some MUFON thing, which I think I've already told you before, he shouldn't be doing that anyway. I mean, he's under contract. He can't be out filming with a competitive source, but whatever. That's what he was doing. I have consistently said to Mike, “Leave Travis alone. Leave him alone.” Like, what is - ? He's constantly after you. He was after me for quite - I dunno, about a week, ten days or whatever.

Travis: Yeah.

Ryan: But I feel your pain. I emailed you twice, I think, yesterday and the day before, because - you remember the email that you sent me, where you said, “Were you at my house at six in the morning?” Remember that?

Travis: Yeah, yeah.

Ryan: I thought, what the hell, Travis? Why are you asking me if I’m at your house?

Travis: That was a paranoid delusion that Mike said, you know.

Ryan: Yeah.

Travis: “So, what was Ryan Gordon doing what your house at six a.m.?”

Ryan: Right. So I told you, Travis, what the hell am I gonna go to your house for? That's stupid. I'm down in the valley. I’m gonna sit in front of your house?

On Mike Rogers' Facebook page, July 20.

(Next posting in the Travis Walton thread)

The Travis Walton 'UFO Abduction' Story - Meltdown!

Forest Service CL-100 lookout tower (same model as Gentry Tower in Apache-Sitgreaves Natl. Forest)

My, how quickly things have been happening! On July 3,  I wrote about how "Crew Chief Mike Rogers Confesses the Travis Walton Hoax!," which contains a recorded confession of the hoax by Rogers. Normally, you'd think that would settle the matter, but that's not how things work in UFOOLogy. Soon, Rogers was claiming on his Facebook page and elsewhere that documentary producer Ryan Gordon, who made the recording, had digitally altered it, to fake his statements. Of course Gordon objected to this, noting that it accused him of a felony, which was quite injurious to his reputation. Mike agreed to retract the accusation, provided that Ryan acknowledged that Mike retracted his 'confession'. Both agreed, and peace was restored, temporarily.

Then the 45-year-old Walton yarn received another body blow recently when Charlie Wiser, a woman in Australia who nobody in UFOlogy seems to have heard of until about two weeks ago, put together a website demonstrating a prodigious amount of research and attention to detail, as well as a saucy sense of humor. It's called ThreeDollarKit, and it's only a few months old. Only two cases are covered in detail: Betty and Barney Hill, and Travis Walton. 

Drawing upon maps and photographs provided by Ryan Gordon, she convincingly argues that Travis and Mike, assisted by at least one or two confederates (probably including Travis' brother Duane), used the existing Gentry fire tower along Rim Road in the forest to first, simulate a UFO, with a powerful searchlight to "zap" Travis, and second, hide Travis away for five days while he was supposed to be on board a "saucer". (There is an apartment inside the tower, for the watcher to stay during his shift, which apparently was five days!) The other five woodcutters had no idea what was going on - but Travis needed them to be there as witnesses. Charlie writes,

• Travis probably hid out in the lookout tower cab with "Betty" the accomplice.
• The search party was looking in the wrong place, with no reason to suspect the tower was involved.
• The Sheriff, on a missing person case, didn’t believe the UFO story, so he had no reason to ask the watcher in the lookout if he’d seen anything weird that night.
  

She goes through a whole lot of details, to explain pretty much all of the Travis Walton yarn. If you're interested in this case, I recommend going through it carefully. It's very credible.

Show of July 16, 2021.

But then on July 16, the Travis Walton story suffered probably its greatest meltdown yet. Mike Rogers agreed to be interviewed by Erica Lukes on her weekly show, UFO Classified. He was supposed to appear via video, but for some reason he didn't (Rogers has done video interviews in the past). Poor Erica had to hold her cell phone, using its own speaker, up to the microphone. She also invited Travis Walton to comment or join in, but received no reply (Walton has previously appeared on her show).

Erica holds her cell phone to the mic for Mike.

It started out pretty slow. She asked Mike to talk about himself, his family and his background, etc. Gradually guiding the conversation back to the incident, Mike repeated the familiar story as it has always been told. He affirmed "one hundred percent" that there was no hoax. However, he later added "I didn't actually see Travis abducted," which leaves him quite a bit of wiggle room. Then he said, I used to believe Travis, but now I'm starting to have my doubts. That started about ten years ago.

The revealing part of the podcast was when Mike began to badmouth Travis Walton, his friend for lo these many years. Earlier, when asked on his Facebook page whether Travis was telling the truth about the 'abduction,' Mike gave him this ringing endorsement: "I have no connection to what Travis Walton says or doesn't say. He is on his own with whatever he says" (July 6).

 

Mike complained that Travis has been trying to keep him 'out of these things' (i.e., the profit from the abduction story) 'for the last thirty years.' The "rift" happened in the year 2000, he said (which was, of course, only 21 years ago). Travis, he says, has an agreement with him to give him 35% of the proceeds in book sales. But "he hasn't paid me a cent!" Mike's sister Dana married Travis decades ago, although they are no longer together. She left him nine years ago. My sister Dana owns the house Travis lives in, said Mike, and if I took Travis to court, I would win, and I'd take his house.

On the subject of that house, Mike began to talk about how the house and its yard are now filled with trash, because Travis is a terrible hoarder. (This is indeed true. I have jokingly suggested that Travis should have an episode about him not on a UFO series, but on Hoarders.)  Mike decried the terrible state of that property, adding that it never looked like that when Dana lived there. (The following day, Mike posted photos of Travis' junkyard-house on his Facebook page, shaming the resident without naming him. This confused many people.)

Mike, who is 74 years old and walks with a cane, nonetheless boasted about his pugilistic abilities. He told how some Mexican guy came up to him speaking Spanish, and was allegedly on drugs. I belted him, Mike boasted. "I've never lost a fight."

At this point almost two hours had passed, which is the normal length of the podcast. Mike's interview was finished But Ryan Gordon, the producer whose investigations of the Walton case have stirred up the current whirlwind, was calling in, and after some brief difficulties they patched him in, via video. 

The program then went on for another two hours. "This is the longest interview I've ever done," said Erica. Ryan explained the story behind Mike's once-disputed (and now retracted) "confession," showing texts preceding it that leave no doubt as to its authenticity. Asked by Erica if he thought any of the persons involved would ever confess making a hoax, Ryan replied, "If my checkbook was big enough." The purpose of the hoax, he explained, was to try to win the National Enquirer's $100,000 prize for proof of alien life. They did not win that, but they did win the Enquirer's Best Case of the year award. 

Walton was hoping to win the National Enquirer's $100,000 reward, later increased to $1 million. (July 13, 1976.)

Ryan then showed maps, and photos he had taken of the area involved the incident,  including dramatic drone footage. He showed how Rogers misled the searchers, bringing them to a site near the Turkey Springs work site, about five miles from Travis' actual location in the tower. I won't try to summarize everything Ryan said here, I strongly encourage interested persons to listen to all two hours of the interview with Ryan.

Less than 24 hours after that podcast, it is still making waves and generating a lot of comment. I predict we will be hearing a lot more on this matter in the near future.

(Indeed we are - next update.)

 

Crew Chief Mike Rogers Confesses the Travis Walton Hoax!

 

For almost forty-five years, many UFOlogists have held up the Travis Walton “five day UFO abduction” story, the subject of the 1993 movie “Fire in the Sky,” as solid proof of a ‘UFO abduction.’ For many reasons, skeptics like me have never found the story convincing, but there was no actual proof that it was a hoax. The Walton story has been told so many times that, even in the midst of the current UFO media frenzy, production companies are uninterested in doing anything more about it, unless some new angle could be revealed. Now Ryan Gordon, who is planning to produce a documentary to reveal a new angle on this famous case, presents a side of the case that has never been seen before – to not only show that the Walton “abduction” is a hoax, but using information obtained from Travis and Mike themselves, to show exactly how the hoax was accomplished. (Hint: Philip J. Klass’ speculations on how it was done were not correct.)

   

Mike Rogers, Travis Walton, and Dana Walton (Mike's sister), with the actual truck from the incident.

 Gordon has a recorded confession from MikeRogers, and he has given permission to post the transcript of the relevant portion here.  (This was not a formal interview. Ryan Gordon had been in talks with Mike Rogers and Travis Walton beginning in June 2020. Ryan was driving when Mike called him out of the blue. This was not uncommon for Mike to do. When Mike started to tell Ryan that the event was hoaxed, Ryan pulled his truck over and put his phone on speaker and recorded the call with his Apple Watch pursuant to Ariz. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 13-3001. The date of the call is April 30, 2021. )

 Transcript

Mike H. Rogers to Ryan Gordon

Recorded April 30, 2021

Copyright Ryan Gordon 2021

MR = Mike H. Rogers

RG = Ryan Gordon

MR: ALL I CAN REMEMBER...LIKE...IS THAT….UHH...WE WERE….WE WERE TALKING IN THE WOODS ONE DAY...TRAVIS AND I...AND UHH...I...I REMEMBER... LEAVING A CHAINSAW ON A STUMP...OKAY...HE HAD A SAW BUT HE TOOK HIS WITH HIM..BECAUSE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT CREATING...UHH...UHH..A UFO HOAX...OKAY?

RG: Yeah

MR: I DON’T KNOW...I DON’T KNOW HOW….HOW...THE UFO GOT THERE OKAY? UHH..BUT I REMEMBER THAT UHH..UHH...WHEN I DROVE...WHEN I WAS DRIVING THE TRUCK AND HE JUMPED OUT... IT WAS..IT WAS ALL DELIBERATE...IT WAS ALL UHH... STAGED THING...OKAY?

RG: Yeah

MR: AND HE RAN UP THERE AND UHH...AND THERE WAS SOMETHING….THERE WAS SOMETHING ABOUT THE UFO UHH….NOT BEING REAL....ALTHOUGH IT LOOKED REAL..

RG: Well, basically so...

MR: AND OF COURSE…

RG: What you’re saying is...uhh...you and Travis..together...hoaxed this?

MR: YEAH...I MEAN TRAVIS’ BROTHER DUANE HELPED HIM.

RG: I believe that

MR: PHILLIP KLASS UHH...ACTUALLY SUSPECTED THAT UHH..UHH DUANE WAS..WAS PART OF IT.

RG: Yeah

MR: I MEAN, HE WAS HIS PROTECTOR AND UHH...HE WAS SAYING WEIRD THINGS ON THAT FRED SYLVANUS INTERVIEW. “I HAVE NOTHING. I DON’T FEAR FOR AT ALL FOR HIS LIFE. I KNOW WHERE HE’S AT”. BLAH BLAH BLAH. YOU KNOW?

RG: I know...that was really….that was really bizarre.

MR: AND I THOUGHT ALL ALONG THAT HE WAS JUST TRYING TO...UHH...HOW WOULD YOU SAY IT? MAKE HIMSELF BELIEVE THAT HIS BROTHER WAS OKAY............

(More developments in this story)