Sunday, March 24, 2013

UFO Sightings Debunker Claims UFOs Are Not Real!

On Friday, March 22 I did an internet radio interview with the pro-UFO site Third Phase of Moon, the largest UFO-related channel on Youtube. Some of their videos have been viewed several million times. The interview was broadcast live on, and is now archived on their YouTube channel (below). I had met up with internet radio broadcaster John Ilias at the recent International UFO Congress, who arranged to have me interviewed by Blake Cousins, the owner of that YouTube channel.

Actually, the Third Phase channel does not have a good reputation even among many UFO proponents. A forum on the pro-paranormal Podcast Paracast calls them the "third phase of the moon fraud group." And speaks of  "UFO hoaxer Blake Cousins," suggesting that his goal is to make money from subscriptions to his YouTube channel. Despite my skepticism I was treated very courteously by the Third Phase people.

Also participating in the show was Joe Rodriguez of Los Angeles, a part-time magician and UFO spotter, who has his own UFO-related YouTube Channel. In the process I discovered another Fly UFO video, that Joe had taken, in the video below. In this video he has "bright UFOs," and "Dark UFOs." The "bright UFO" appears to be a white balloon, with something hung below it. It's never in good enough focus to see it clearly. The "dark UFOs," which move so fast that they need to be seen in slow motion, are obviously Fly UFOs, exactly like Leslie Kean's much-hyped Fly UFO video from Chile, and the now-famous Denver Fly UFO videos. (Even Blake Cousins was dismissive of the Denver Fly UFOs.) Now we have the Los Angeles Fly UFO to join them. When I explained this, at first Joe accepted that it was a fly, but later insisted it could not have been.

Blake explained that they had over 600 UFO videos on their website. How could I say they were all fakes (or ordinary objects) if I hadn't analyzed them all? I explained the principle of the 'UFO hierarchy' as developed by Philip J. Klass: don't waste precious time investigating low-value UFO claims. Instead, wait for the UFO proponents themselves to declare which UFO cases are the best, then focus in on those. After all, if the "best" cases, as selected by the UFO proponents themselves, are wobbly, how much less credible must be those cases that even the proponents largely ignore!

Surprisingly, the discussion took a religious turn. Joe said "I'm not a religious person," then went on to cite Bible passages and suggest that UFOs represent the fulfillment of prophecy. (Apparently some of his religious comments were edited out of the broadcast.) I asked him, if he is not a religious person, why does he think that Bible verses tell us anything about the future? Asked about my own religious beliefs, I simply said that I don't have any, and pointed out that each major literate civilization has its own religious writings, and they all contradict each other. Blake mentioned something about what "our Creator" wanted, and I said I didn't believe we were "created," but are here as the result of unguided Darwinian evolution.

The comments being made about my interview are very enlightening! A random sample:
I can't stand listening to debunkers, & am surprised the government is? still using them, & if their not working for the Government & actually believe the dribble they say, then you have 2 excuses 1. Religion or 2. Total Ignorance of Reality, & both indicate some severe Pathology.
Blake: Why didn't you challenge Robert Schaeffer [sic] on his ridiculous assertion that the Phoenix lights were military? flares? He made it sound so matter of fact (it clearly isn't). It was infuriating to listen to him not being challenged on that.
flare drop my ass!! just government trying? to make up excuses
Maybe if that guy had a visit from The grey's he'd hum a different tune! [Yes, probably I would!]
Seriously, the evidence is everywhere. Just like spirits/ghosts. Evidence is key. You also have to see it to believe it. People nowadays who don't believe in spirits/ghosts and especially UFO's? fascinate me, they fascinate me because of how people are still close minded.
The NSA has many agents that? make a living from being a skeptic. One is Phil Plait, the other is Bill Nye the science guy…they got him to manipulate the thoughts of their fans. The only way they could make money from doing this is if they were paid by the NSA…there is no money in it otherwise.
this guys a dummbass i saw a perfect saucer shaped object that took off that? it looked like star track.hes stupid.
he is a moron!? An they are here 24 -7.
It been very enjoyable listing to a paid? US government operative weave the web of propaganda. We all know MOFON [MUFON] is a Government controlled org.
Hey Robert......explain Betty Hill's map (drawn BACKWARDS) from the VISITORS PERSPECTIVE, and the fact that? some of those stars weren't even KNOWN back when she drew that map!!! And the fact that it took YEARS for anyone to recognize that star system (Zeta Reticulum) drawn backwards!! ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE!!! [This guy is obviously not reading!]
And how about the implants that have been removed from people (worldwide) that contain elements NOT KNOWN ON EARTH!!! You fella, are in SERIOUS DENIAL!!! [More to come on this in future postings.]
And I learned some interesting things: in trying to set up a longer future debate on a different internet radio channel, there was a difficulty in finding a UFO proponent willing to debate me! The UFO fabulist Stan Romanek flatly refused. This recalls the situation some years ago, when a number of famous UFO proponents, including J. Allen Hynek and Whitley Strieber, firmly refused to go on any TV or radio show if Klass was participating, and it looks like I am now carrying on that fine tradition. But I also understand that the indomitable Flying Saucer physicist, Stanton T. Friedman, is unafraid to debate. So we will probably see such a debate in the coming weeks. I'm looking forward to this immensely, because Friedman has said so many absurd things over the years that I will greatly enjoy making him eat them.


  1. Robert: I get the distinct impression that modern Ufologists to some extent are religious rather than objective observers like they used to claim...The "vain repetition" prayer dealing the Phoenix Lights is enough for me.....

    Dale in AL

  2. If you do get a chance to debate Friedman the best attack is probably to get him to give you his 'five best' cases, and then either demolish or severely damage them one by one. Two of these will be Roswell and Betty Hill, maybe even Aztec (!). Then you can blow him out of the water.

    If he gets a broad remit and a free overall go at UFOs in general, it will be more difficult to counter him. His UFO narrative can be very persuasive to the masses.

    However, I leave it to you. You know him far better than I do.

    I predict that, whatever happens, Friedman will be described as a nuclear physicist. This already plants the idea in listeners/viewers heads that he must know what he is talking about.

  3. I think a better explanation for the Phoenix Lights is that it's a stealth, triangular military blimp....

  4. Stanton Friedman is probably the most forceful proponent of the "extraterrestrial hypothesis" (ETH), but even SETI's Seth Shostak, who is relatively uninformed about UFOs and ufology, handled him quite well in debate. You shouldn't have any problems.

  5. You're going to make him eat his words, eh? I guess that beats shoving them up his arse. Let the aliens handle that end of things.

  6. Here's "Third Phase of The Moon" Ten Most Popular Videos...

    10. UFO Flying Aimlessly Without Any Apparent Destination!

    9. Alien Bites Charley's Finger, Again!

    8. Cola and Mentos, and a UFO.

    7. Bigfoot After Dentist

    6. Another UFO Flying Around Without Any Destination!

    5. Real Alien Sings Duet with Justin Bieber. Alien wins Grammy.

    4. Stanton Friedman Takes Wild Ride in UFO and Vomits!

    3. LonelyBlake15

    2. Easter Bunny Forced to Mate with Alien Creating Hybrid that Lays Colored Eggs!

    1. Caught on Video! Blake Cousins Cashing YouTube Revenue Sharing Check!


  7. Joe Rodriguez,the video's are pretty much like all the rest,a few flying insects and not much more.I must admit,as a skeptic,I remain open minded,especially when the steps needed to get to the truth don't seem to be that important,for both the believer's and the non believer's.The FAA claims they take near misses very serious ,but to the best of knowledge, have never made any concerted effort to see who or what is [according to pilot reports]flying so close to other aircraft,with their transponder's turned off[if indeed their military or other commercial jets].Looking at the cost of the aircraft and the priceless cargo of humans on board doesn't seem to equate to investing any more money.To me and many other's no amount is too much to ask for making the skies just a little bit safer.One of the cheaper methods is used by the police,mounted camera's,a few HD camera's mounted in the fuselage and some electronic upgrades might just put a name to whom or what is coming so close to our commercial traffic .As a added bonus,UFO reports like flight 1628,might have never been reported by the pilot,or the on board camera's might have shown it to be a cloud being illuminated by lighting or a solar flare etc.I know ,to some it is a silly idea and the airline's would surely tell us the camera's wouldn't be able to lock onto a fast moving object,no matter what it was].and those it did,it would be next to impossible to decipher what the object was.To me it would be the start of the end of the question ,once and for all,is their any truth to the question,have we been visited by other being's or ourselves from the future[anybody find a time machine ,portal, ha ha] at any time in reported history.I want to know the truth and so far nobody,both the believer's in UFO's and the skeptic's[me]don't have a answer.

  8. Robert,
    I think debating Stanton is a good idea. I think Richard Dolan would also be someone you might want to debate, especially since his best known book, "UFOs and the National Security State" is probably the the most well researched book on the subject. According to his research, our own Government's documents prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the phenomena is real. I've read the book and to me, the paper trail leads us to three possible explanations;
    1. The government documents are all part of some huge disinformation process designed to confuse the public.
    2. The phenomena represent "real" events. That's not to say they are extraterrestrial, they may be intra-dimensional.
    3. Dolan has faked the documents.
    I'd be interested to know your take on his evidence?

  9. Richard Dolan's book "UFOs and the National Security State: The Cover-Up Exposed, 1973-1999" writes in detail about the 1987 Gulf Breeze UFO sightings as geninue even though it was proven to be a hoax. Either Dolan is a poor researcher or deliberately leaves out facts that will explain an UFO sighting, I'm not sure. But that was red flag for me and I wouldn't trust anything else in that book.

    1. "proven to be a hoax" is a catch phrase that often comes in handy, but it assumes that the subject has been "proven to be a hoax" in some universal scientific sense.

      Since proving a negative is not possible, this is a disingenuous trick.

      Certain elements of an event can be hoaxed while others are not.

    2. "But that was red flag for me and I wouldn't trust anything else in that book.

      The research in Dolan's book is very high level. He is a respected academic in a prestigious University, Dismissing the entire book because you have heard that one item has been "proven to be a hoax" (see above), seems like a cop out.

    3. And finally, if you think that Dolan is a bad researcher, that will make debating him easier! Go for it!!!!

  10. I think a better explanation for the Phoenix Lights is that it's a stealth, triangular military blimp and claims pages links


  12. ps: I'm a commercial photographer in Seattle, WA. 39 years as a hired gun.
    ALL photos taken over a period of four summers, metro Seattle skies.
    28 sightings, 24 with photos.



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