In my previous posting dated January 2, we saw Kathleen Marden's absurd charges that the letter I posted from Dr. Simon dated March 1, 1976 is "fraudulent," because its contents are most inconvenient for her and contradict the story that she is trying to promote.
Somebody claiming to be "Paul Westfall," a Master's degree student in psychology at UC Berkeley, posted a comment to that Blog entry which exactly parallels Marden's argument that Dr. Simon's letter is a "forgery." Putting on the airs of a psychology professional, he basically says that what Dr. Simon wrote in that letter is full of crap, and accuses Klass of forging it.
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| Stanton Friedman and Kathleen Marden selling stuff at last year's International UFO Congress. |
But I smelled a rat as I started to look into this. At that same time, I unexpectedly received an email from the very wise Ted Molczan, telling me that he smelled a rat, too.
Here is the reply I posted to "Paul Westfall" (who cannot even spell "Berkeley" correctly!):
Mr. Westfall,
Your letter above is rather peculiar, especially inasmuch as you say that 'your group' has been monitoring 'my group'. Sir, I don't HAVE a group here. It's just me writing.
"We have also been monitoring carefully how groups such as yours interact with such individuals. Within that context we found the content within this blob perplexing and quite frankly somewhat irresponsible and represented."
I seriously think that this is quite bogus, as psychology researchers at a prestigious university have better things to do than to read Blogs such as mine, and complain about them.
Here is the current directory of psychology graduate students at UC Berkeley. It is nicely in alphabetical order. There is nobody on that list named "Westfall."
http://psychology.berkeley.edu/people/graduate-students
Also, Cal Berkeley DOES NOT HAVE a Master's program in Psychology. It is a PhD program only.
You, sir, are a fraud. Who put you up to this?????
Is this "Paul Westfall" a real person? Or is he a sock puppett created by Marden or one of her staunch defenders?
I suspect the individual probably has an axe to grind with Klass, who happens to be the target here (something Marden implied but really did not say). I doubt that Marden/Friedman put them up to it. They just did it because they don't like debunkers, Klass, or anybody else who want to point out unpleasant facts regarding a case that is cemented in Ufology as "best evidence".
ReplyDeleteTim...I am a man of Jesus and a Scott I would never have an "axe to grind" as you put it regarding anyone. This is not about anger. It's about justice through Jesus and hope that know where I am coming from. Are you with the Lord in your life?
DeletePraise Be!
DeleteYou may been in the navy pal but I am a soldier of Jesus. Damn you people piss me off.
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ReplyDeleteGo ahead Shawn. Don't be shy. Let's get it out on the table.
Deletepoint is, they could just go to UNH and see in Betty's own handwriting that she felt Dr.Simon was not a believer in UFOs. She felt he was not as committed as she was, and also if he had not died, I suspect there would have been great animosity between the two. I don't want to be disrespectful of Dr.Simon, but this is just my opinion, he was using the Hills for his own promotion and hoping to make money off of them. True or not, it was the feeling I was distinctly left with after viewing so many of the letters and notes at UNH Archives. I could go up and find example after example. They are NOT forgeries. In fact, it seems silly to even claim such a letter is a forgery... too much evidence backing up what was in that letter.
ReplyDeleteJeez! Dude... Put up or shut up. Who is your graduate advisor? Who else is on your 'team'? Please send a resume of work you've published or places you've studied so one can verify that you even exist as the person you claim to be.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Bob completely. Your letter has all the hallmarks of being written by a poorly informed con-artist. You are not worth talking to until verify that you are in fact exactly who you claim to be.
Well I have to admit that Mr Shaefer got me. I am actually an undergraduate student working a paper with some of my fellows. I don't wish to bring them attention and so that is why I remain in a quiet place. Frankly, the response by Mr Shaefer is what I anticipated might happen and we are at the beginning of our educational careers and must be careful if we are to ask direct questions of those that we don't know. That is just common sense. Besides, Mr Klass and Mr. Friedman whom we have watched in videos both have had rumored associations with the CIA and we are cautious regarding all of this. But to my original thesis, if you are serious skeptic how could you not question the various writings attributed to this Dr Simon. It could just as easily have been Mr. Klass given the awkward writing style that is not consistent with other writings of Simon. Please explain. And what clinical background do you have in psychology to validate the questionable quotes presented here. At best it is hearsay if not an outride fraud. I am a psychology student and one of my groups father is a clinical psychologist who thinks Klass was a disagreeable fellow. We live in Mill Valley, just into Marin and just next to Tiburon where it's been very rainy and chilly but we've needed the rain. I hope the sun is shining where you all are!
Delete"..the response by Mr Shaefer (sic) is what I anticipated might happen (sic) and we are at the beginning of our educational careers and must be careful if we are to ask direct questions of those that we don't know. That is just common sense."
DeleteDude, take Remedial English 101 and get back to us. If I were your teacher I'd give you a D. You're not going to make it as a graduate student writing this poorly. If English is a second language for you then you need more study.
"Mr Klass and Mr. Friedman whom (sic) we have watched in videos both have (sic) had rumored associations with the CIA and we are cautious regarding all of this."
I see you *have* passed Conspiracy Theories 101.
This is just one of a few projects I'm working on sir and this is not a test. We're looking for information and the validity of the author here. Why do you and he seem so angry about ufos and all that. Is there nothing else going on in Mr Shaeffers life? Why are you all so consumed with something that you believe doesn't exist. Is it just to belittle those that you insist have a personality disorder? How is that not bullying? Are we not a tolerant society? Please expand on this concepy beyond ad hominem attacks.
DeleteYou were the one, who came in here and claimed all sorts of things. The major issue was a claim that Klass forged this document based on your "professional analysis", which you have yet to present. I have no fancy education but when I was in the Navy, we often used the phrase "put up or shut up". I know I am interested in seeing how you arrived at your conclusion. I hope I don't have to wait long.
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Deletethere is absolutely no reason to be upset sir and thank you for your service to our country. I made no claims and merely expressed a thought experiment that you should be able to accept if you are intellectually secure. That kind of discipline should have been taught to you in the Navy and I don't see how you can disagree with that if you are being honest with yourself.
DeleteTim...you seem to have anger issues. Is it a challenge for you to self regulate? If so we suggest cognitive therapy and proper sleep hygiene.
DeleteContrary to what you state, you did make a claim and failed to back it up.
DeleteIn the Navy, we don't deal with "thought experiments" but facts that can not be disputed. I operated a nuclear reactor on a submarine (actually multiple subs during my career). If we used "thought experiments" to operate them, then there would be a lot of submarines at the bottom of the ocean. Thought experiments are reserved for people who have time to think about theoretical problems (like Einstein). The claim that a document is a forgery is not theoretical at all so there was no need for a "thought experiment".
You are trying to change the focus of the problem here by shifting it towards my "anger issues". My reaction has to do with "pretenders" that pop up in UFOlogy. They pretend to be experts and state they have expert degrees so they can appear authoritative. We now know that your claim about your expertise and that Klass probably forged the document is false.
So what? That's not pertinent to the subject matter or as a logical segue. Whether I am an expert or not regarding the forgery is not relevant either. What IS relevant is that BOZO T. Clown did not do his proper due diligence with the document as attributed and having had a multi decade shadowy relationship with Klass who the FBI investigated for several decades and that is in the public decade. Stop deflecting. Stop gas lighting. stay on task. stop self referencing. It's annoying.
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ReplyDeleteMr Westfall: We seem to be almost neighbors since I live Fairfax.
ReplyDeleteBut if you really were seeking information, isn't it better to honestly identify who you are and ask the questions you may have in a less hostile way?
And if you are a neural psych student who is concerned about ethics and confidentiality, you certainly understand why it is important that people look closely at the kind of claims that Kathleen Marden and other abduction "researchers" have made. The methods raise serious questions and I am glad that this blog (as well as others such as Jack Brewer's UFO Trail) have provided more information about it.
There are serious issues that have affected people's lives. The Hill case is interesting to look at in that regard because of its position in ufology and the abduction scenarios.
As Mr. Schaefer has established, Dr. Simon's position in regard to Hill's story is consistent. I have no idea if Klass was disagreeable or not. But to accuse him of forgery, talk about linguistic profiles (as if you have expertise in that field) and to raise the specter of Antisocial Personality Disorder as I you have credentials to diagnose that seems like an irresponsible stretch - to put it mildly.
Neuropsychologists and neuropsychiatrists have provided valuable expertise in the work that I do. And it is possible that research in these fields could provide important information to understand the abduction phenomenon. But if this is how you approach your study, I hope you will learn better in time.
I am matching the standard set forth by the originating author Mr Shaeffer and as the rhetorical standard set forth by him. It is perfectly reasonable in the process of inquiry to do so and in the offhanded and somewhat glib manner and on display. Terminology of "Scaucer Stories" or whatever terminology he used is the standard by which we use for our research under such conditions. I remain anonymous so that I may do research in a quiet place. My approach merely matches the tone of the author and other contributors here and is not intended to be hostile. It is a perfectly valid mirroring technique. It also can be viewed as valid therapy encouraging Mr. Shaeffer to confront his insecurities about his lack of hair.
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DeleteBased on your performance here, I would say your principle "gifts" have to do with making false statements and making fun of how people appear in photographs. BTW, as an ex-military man, I have a fondness for ball caps with most of them having the emblems of submarines I served upon.
DeleteMr. Westfall,
DeleteYou said that "I remain anonymous," implying that "Westfall" is not your real name. Did you lie about your identity, too?
I am wondering if, when you go to church, they tell you that Jesus approves of lying?
The letter in question from Dr. Simon is posted on-line, as are at least three others that Marden does not question as genuine. If somebody wants to get a document examiner to look at them, I don't care. Be my guest.
Robert, I believe that this is referred to as a "false" prophet:)
DeleteFor a legitimate review of the letters authenticity there should a larger sampling of peer reviewed literature as a control. Not by you. not by this Mardin woman. Just the literature, period. You discredit her and others and then you cherry pick something ascribed to them to validate your own agenda. That is a logical double bind that disqualifies your objectivity. Further, what is your obsession with Klass as a valid source of information. There are a lot of people who think Klass was gay and there is nothing wrong with that. Did you spend any time with him? I am connecting the dots so that we know who knew who and what the social contxt was between people. Do you think his sexual alignment had anything to do with his hatred toward Betty Hill and other women or is that stretch? I am open to comment on all of this. Praise Be and God bless you Mr. Shaffer and Mr Tim.
DeleteCan you give us a figure of what is considered "a lot of people"?
Deleteyou are absolutely correct Tim. This site is entirely a farce and properly identified by you as such. poorly crafted and propagandist. It also has predictable a half witted straw man defensive measures for anyone who reality tests this sociopathy. It does add to an understanding of the culture of ufology and other controversial subjects.
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DeleteWhy not give Dr. Simon's letters to a forensic document examiner?
ReplyDeletebrilliant! because that would rely on Mr. Shaefer's risking aiding and abetting an alleged forgery if he brought it to such an expert. Plus, it would cost him $2.15 that he doesn't have.
DeleteThis all appears to be a farce. Paul Westfall, if that is truly his name, appears to be targeting Robert as evidence by the numerous remarks about his age and appearance.
ReplyDeleteAnd Mr. Westfall (?) appears to have a psychological aversion to people wearing hats...I'm guessing that the sight of clowns would illicit the same nonsensical replies.
So Paul, no declared major? Are you on the 5 year or 7 year plan to obtain your undergrad degree?
Mr Shaffer..you are in no position as an atheist to lecture me about Jesus or any other religion and considering that you at stage one of moral development.
DeleteIt has been determined that “Paul Westfail” is a liar and a smart ass.
ReplyDeleteI think it’s time to stop feeding this Internet Troll.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
Isn't the internet a fabulous and quick way to get great data from pretty much anywhere? It takes about two seconds to countermand ya'll. Step up the game boys! Yer not very good....chop..chop!
DeleteI have erased asome of Westfall's more abusive and scurrilous comments (leaving a few so folks can see why I had to). From this point on, I'll erase everything he posts. He came on here using a false name, false credentials, and a false academic affiliation. When I exposed his impostures, he became furious and started posting all kinds of abusive material. We do not need that here.
ReplyDeletePlease don't feed the troll.
Thank you. End of transmission.
DeleteTo quote a famous line by Firesign Theatre, "He's no fun, he fell right over."
ReplyDelete